Tourism is Saving the Tigers: with Vishal Singh of Royal Expeditions

20 years ago, India's beautiful and

2

stunning tigers were declining.

3

But today, they're roaring back,

and one of the people who helped

4

make that happen is here to tell you

how responsible travel became one

5

of the tiger's very best friends.

6

Welcome to Travel That Touches Your

Soul podcast and video channel.

7

I'm Karen Cleveland, and I am here to

bring you the leaders around the world

8

that help create meaningful travel and

help you fulfill your heart's desires.

9

My guest today is Vishal Singh, managing

director of Royal Expeditions and India

10

director of TOFT, Travel Operators for

Tigers, the organization that has been

11

behind the ethical certification that

is reshaping wildlife tourism in India.

12

For more than 25 years, Vishal has

worked as a conservationist, helping

13

drive one of the greatest comeback

stories in modern conservation, the

14

- recovery of India's tiger population.

15

He's also created Bike for Tigers, which

is a 180-kilometer charity cycle riding

16

through the jungle corridor between

two of central India's tiger reserves.

17

So Vishal, I want to

welcome you - to the show.

18

Thank you for being here today.

19

. Thank you.

20

Yes, you're welcome.

21

So can you tell me,, do you remember the

first time that you saw a wild tiger?

22

I'd love to hear about it, and did

that experience help shape your future

23

work, y- what you're doing today?

24

Okay.

25

So, uh, you know, first time I saw

tiger was when I was in school.

26

We went for a school trip to Ranthambore,

and, , that time it was not a very

27

popular park, and it was a school trip.

28

And,, we went for a safari,

and we didn't see any tiger.

29

Okay.

30

Then, uh, in those times, you were

allowed to do a picnic inside, so we

31

were doing a picnic Uh, me and few of

my friends, and then we saw a tiger.

32

So he was a little further in the

walking,, it, we, it went past

33

us, and, um, it was a very magical

moment, and we all just froze.

34

And, and we were so excited that we

actually saw the tiger, because we didn't

35

think there was any tiger in that forest.

36

So, it, it was a really exciting for

us, and then we went to call everybody

37

by, by the time it had disappeared.

38

So that was one of my first

very close sighting, and,

39

uh, it was quite magnificent.

40

But that time I was only around 14

year old, um, and then while I was

41

always interested in wildlife, , you

know, I grew up in a tea plantation.

42

My father used to work

for a tea plantation.

43

We used to have a lot of forest around it,

and, um, and when we used to come back,

44

uh, we used to study in boarding school.

45

When we used to come back, uh, every

time I would come back and I would see

46

the forest being, you know, depleted.

47

More and more areas coming through

cultivation and every time, so

48

that used to make me feel very sad.

49

Because my hobby was to actually

cycle around and go see wildlife,

50

and we could sometimes see elephants

and sometimes we see other animals.

51

So it was always a, it was a good

pastime for me and a hobby to go and see.

52

But when I saw all the forests

getting cleared and, you know, uh,

53

it used to make me feel really sad.

54

, The animals don't have any place to stay,

because the humans are just, uh, you

55

know, taking over the land all the time.

56

On the estate we had a bamboo

grove, which was quite big.

57

So all these elephants sometimes

used to come and take shelter there,

58

because they used to do crop raiding.

59

And then I used to tell my father,

"Don't do anything to these elephants.

60

Let them be."

61

. But I was born in a, like a, uh,

in a place where there was a lot

62

of human animal conflict as such.

63

And that's still a problem, isn't it?

64

The human animal conflict.

65

Y- yes.

66

Uh, it's a major problem and , and

there is a lot of land available.

67

There is forest, but that, that

forest land is not, doesn't have

68

that kind of, uh, you know, forest

cover to sustain these animals.

69

Right.

70

So what was it that you finally

decided to start working in

71

some kind of conservation?

72

Uh, it was more to save the habitat

and, because, you know, if you see

73

when the Project Tiger started, uh,

it- the, the main ethos behind it was

74

that you let the jungle be protected,

don't a- allow the people to enter,

75

and the wildlife will come back.

76

Mm.

77

So it did happen.

78

we did not have the population it has now.

79

You know, in the last 10 years we

are now more than a billion people.

80

Wow.

81

So now the people pressure is

much more on the park for grazing,

82

for, you know, extracting fore-

uh, forest produce and things.

83

So that formula, which the

project was successful with, is

84

not successful now because they

were not involving the people.

85

I see.

86

but now it is only the places,

if there's of economic importance

87

to the people, the forest, then

only will the wildlife survive.

88

So that was my thought and that's what

we believe and, um, even if you see

89

by example, all the parks doing well

are the ones which have, good tourism

90

infrastructure and people are benefiting

from tourism by living around the parks.

91

So they have been, uh, those

parks have been doing well.

92

So that the idea was that, you

know, the government's policy was

93

different and what works is different.

94

… And we wanted to improve

that, and that was the idea.

95

Because we saw, we were - I used

to do tourism before we started

96

this, but when we used to go to

the parks, it was really difficult.

97

Um, there was not much sighting and,

and I used to work with companies that

98

wanted to actually help do something

in the parks or to donate for tigers

99

and, you know, for conservation.

100

But as our system, the parks in

India only run by the government,

101

so private funds just have to go

to the government, and we have no

102

control over how it is, it is used.

103

So, um, from that time to now, things

have changed, but, um, that's why we

104

want to do something with the people

and make sure, um, the tourism that,

105

uh, is done is more ethical and, uh,

and makes maximum participation from

106

the local people That makes sense.

107

Y- you know, you don't want to stop

tourism to save the wildlife because

108

then the people will suffer, right?

109

The single biggest, uh, driver for

saving the tigers has been tigernomics.

110

It's the economics of having to live in

a place where there is tiger tourism,

111

and tiger tourism if- has brought a lot

of economic benefits to, uh, places.

112

Especially if you see place like

Ranthambore, Bandhavgarh, uh, Corbett, has

113

really benefited from tourism, and lot of

people are involved, uh, in tourism there.

114

So, um, and we had done a study.

115

They are nearly four times better off than

people who are in areas without tigers.

116

Wow.

117

And because of- if you look at a park

like, um, Ranthambore, where, you

118

know, they have had two hospitals,

five big schools, uh, they have a

119

railway station, and, um, and now it's

getting more and more popular, and,

120

um, tourism is kind of exploding there.

121

But, uh, it's a good example, , for

saving the tigers, and more and more

122

parks are now, uh, moving towards this.

123

Another great park which has done

very well with tigernomics is called

124

Tadoba, where they have actually im-

um, empowered the, surrounded the whole

125

park with 14 gates, and they have- Wow

126

given locals the permits

to drive the cars.

127

So you have to go with the local

Jeep driver, and, um, and the

128

guide in each of these areas.

129

So now they have a friendly

force all around the park, and

130

it, the park has had the maximum

growth of tigers, uh, in India.

131

So, um, so- Wow … so we strongly

believe that if the community is

132

financially benefiting, uh, it brings

better protection for wildlife.

133

Wow.

134

That's fantastic.

135

People do four times

better near tiger parks.

136

That's, that's good news.

137

Karen Cleveland: you talk about just

a couple of the initiatives that you

138

actually employed that have, helped the,

the tiger population increase since then?

139

It's, I think it's more

than doubled, right, yes.

140

Uh, you know, like even if you take for

example from a popular pl- park like

141

Ranthambore, when we started at 11 tigers,

now it has more than 80, 85 tigers.

142

Wow.

143

So and the, and, and most of the other

parks, uh, the numbers have gone up a lot.

144

We first wanted to create, confidence in

the international tourism market that what

145

India is offering is at par with Africa.

146

So we first, Started this certification

program, uh, and we tied up with the

147

GSTC, Global Sustainable Tourism Council,

to bring in a kind of a certification

148

program for the lodges so that they

can have a certified eco credential.

149

And with that we had a program where,

uh, how a sustainable lodge runs and

150

how many people it employs and how

it disposes waste and things so that

151

the people who come from outside ca-

uh, can have a same standard of lodge

152

as they were experiencing in Africa.

153

Plus, um, we also, um, started

a lot of training programs for

154

guides, um, and for the naturalists.

155

We also initiated one, uh, forest guardian

program which became very successful,

156

now the government runs it, where we

used to fund local people to g- be eyes

157

and ears for the forest and, uh, they

would record any, uh, illegal activity

158

taking place and report to the park

authorities or have camera traps in their

159

land to just to see if a poacher- Oh, wow

160

is coming or nothing like…

161

something like that.

162

So we started that kind of a program also.

163

And we did a study, um, and gave it

to the government, like the people

164

who live around the parks economically

are four x time better, four times

165

better than the people who are not

living near the that's wonderful.

166

I know I loved my trip , , as

you know, but the listeners- Yes

167

or viewers don't that I, I traveled with

you in Royal Expeditions and, and stayed

168

at the top eco lodges at the parks and it

was a wonderful experience, which is why I

169

want to take more people back and do this.

170

. So my exposure has been, you know, a

very ethical operation, um, and safaris.

171

Are there still unethical

operators out there?

172

And if so, if someone wants to go on

a safari, how would they spot them?

173

Uh, I would say, , first of all,

they should know what to expect.

174

Yeah Uh, so, you know, to plan

your saf- um, safari for seeing

175

tigers in India, you need time.

176

Most important thing is you need

time, and you should spend at least

177

two to three nights in a park.

178

And, um, and if you're really keen

on seeing, uh, you know, a lot of

179

tigers because our parks have lots

of rules and regulations, like

180

you're not allowed mobile phones,

and then you have some parks you have

181

routes, sometimes you have zones.

182

And, um, so you need to go to a

operator who understands the park

183

and plans your safari in such a

way that you will see a tiger.

184

So, um, dur- during your, uh, trip.

185

And also the season is also important.

186

Oh.

187

So the summers are more easier to see.

188

But if you don't like warm weather,

then even February, March, um,

189

February, January, February.

190

But you can see a tiger anytime.

191

Right.

192

My son went just now in the

monsoon, and he saw a tiger.

193

Oh, nice.

194

So, yeah.

195

So that's, , it's, it's, it's depends

on your luck and the skill of the people

196

who are with you, how they read the

language of the jungle, how they, uh,

197

read the alarm calls or how they track.

198

So, so that, that, that's important Yeah.

199

And that's very different

than most African safaris.

200

Certainly some of them do track a lot

and pay attention to the alarm calls.

201

But definitely looking for the

tigers does require that, tigers

202

and leopards there in India.

203

Can you tell me why mobile phones

are not allowed in the parks?

204

Um, I would say it, everybody was trying

to make a reel or, you know- … someone

205

was trying to get close to the tiger

and, you know, they would really want

206

photo and, um, and it was getting

dangerous also, uh, the people popping

207

out of their Jeeps and things like that.

208

Yeah.

209

So now, uh, so they

really were not enjoying.

210

They were all there to actually … They

won't enjoy a tiger walking.

211

Everybody will be putting

their cameras in front.

212

So I don't think so it was a

good … … we did get for first, um,

213

few months it was, uh, I would say a

lot of, um, people were complaining.

214

But after some time, I think so they

have a much more relaxed, uh- Yeah

215

trip if they use their cameras.

216

And also I have realized that

the, the drivers, the guides, the

217

naturalists are using more of their

skills now because earlier they

218

could communicate with the phones.

219

So now they really have to use their

skills and their, you know, um,

220

prediction that where it'll come

out or if it is there, then which

221

is normal route he takes to come

out or which water hole most likely.

222

So it has become a bit more interesting,

and people are not racing around a lot.

223

Yeah.

224

Yeah, it's great.

225

As a, as a client to be able to go in

and not have the phone, you don't … You

226

know you're not going to be talking to

anyone or waiting for a message, so you

227

can, you just relax and- Yeah … take

advantage of that time offline.

228

So it's wonderful.

229

Um, have you seen guests come in and,,

had transformations seeing the tigers or

230

have,, some really meaningful experiences

231

uh, yes.

232

You know, uh, we used to run a program

called a tiger study tour and, uh, it was

233

a program based in Panna and the people

used to come to actually … It was a

234

normal tour plus we had these exercises

the people used to do, how to, how

235

the scientists actually studies tiger.

236

And, they would do different

exercises and, you know, if the

237

how do they count tigers

and things like that.

238

So we had a, um, a proper wildlife

scientist who would do a little bit

239

of training for them and so we had

one lady, uh, who joined the trip.

240

Her name was Mrs.

241

Buxton and, um, she was, uh, an artist.

242

So she was so, uh, much in love with

the tigers and the people that she

243

used to come every year after that

trip with us and every time she would

244

take photographs and then she would

make paintings and sell them in UK.

245

Mm.

246

And with all that money then she

brought all that money and she

247

started working with one school,

um, um, in Madla, in Panna.

248

Oh.

249

So and she … And then she helped upgrade

the whole school from all her funds she

250

used to sell by selling the paintings

and we used to actually do free travel

251

for her because we were all so, um, uh,

you know, touched by her, um, thought.

252

And that park at that time when

we started, started losing its

253

tigers and by the end it lost

all its tigers through poaching.

254

So- Oh … and then it came

out internationally and then

255

they reintroduced tigers there.

256

Now there are more than, you know,

40, 50 tigers in the same park.

257

Though Mrs.

258

Buxton is no more, but she still supported

that park and the school when there

259

was hardly any tourism in that park.

260

That's wonderful.

261

So it, it was very touch,

uh, touching for us.

262

Yeah.

263

That had impact downstream.

264

Uh, a lot of kids and-

Yes … a lot of people.

265

That's wonderful to hear.

266

If someone, wants to come see the

tigers, you said, , it takes planning.

267

And why don't you tell us a little

bit about what Royal Expeditions does

268

and w- what a person needs to, to plan

for, if they want to come on a trip?

269

Yeah.

270

So Royal Expeditions is, , a

boutique travel company, and we,

271

uh, specialize in wildlife trips.

272

And so what to come and see, see tigers,

first thing is you need, you need to

273

plan You need to give visit at least

two parks so that your, you, um, you

274

kind of hedge your bets between two.

275

Because the tigers in each

park are moving or they have a

276

lot of politics between them.

277

Sometimes the, sometimes there's cub

and mother, sometimes there's a male who

278

wants to come into the territory and shoo

the old male out, and then everybody's

279

hiding so you might not see anything.

280

Right.

281

So there, so, so to mitigate that

you need to at least visit two parks,

282

and then also do at least four,

three to four safaris in each park.

283

.. And our ticket system is such a

way that you, the park permits

284

open three months in advance.

285

So we have to have your bookings, your

passport details, so then we can choose

286

the potential areas, the permits for

the potential areas, um, uh, where

287

there is good sighting according to,

uh, our knowledge or seeing if there's a

288

female with cubs or which area is doing

better, so we can make the choices.

289

Some parks have three, four

zones, some parks have one

290

zone only, so we work it out.

291

So it's better to ask us which park

to go instead of just using AI and

292

just trying to find out, because AI

will not be giving you the correct-

293

Right … current information because

they will only see what feedbacks

294

are there from previous, data.

295

, Yeah, and most of them, the parks, the

permits, they sell out, like you said,

296

the three months in advance, right?

297

So it's not a last-minute

trip that someone wants to do.

298

Last minute you can.

299

There is last minute quota also, but

you have to- Okay … uh, you have to…

300

We won't know if you have got the permit

at least one week in advance or you go

301

to the buffer areas and things like that.

302

… You might be lucky, you might get

everything, but you might not get also.

303

Okay.

304

And so India is not like Africa where

it's mainly dependent on foreign tourists.

305

90% of the tourists to the

parks are, are Indians.

306

Yeah.

307

So, um, so you must realize.

308

But the Indians actually do not

plan so much in advance, but the

309

at least two months in advance they

will also plan Uh, because they also

310

know that then they won't get the

good zones if they don't book early.

311

Oh, interesting.

312

Okay, so I want to let everyone know

listening and watching that I'm taking,

313

to know if you want to go by September,

314

but there will be future trips too.

315

So one of the things we're

doing with you all is we're

316

going to have an all-day permit.

317

Yes.

318

And why don't, can you let

us know what to expect?

319

What, what we haven't mentioned

is that most safaris are

320

only morning or afternoon.

321

You don't stay all day.

322

Yes.

323

Yeah.

324

So we are going to stay, , one

day, all day in the park.

325

What can we expect with that?

326

So with that all-day permit,

uh, you have a advantage.

327

You actually enter the park

15 minutes before and, uh,

328

so you, uh, miss the crowds.

329

And then you can s- go anywhere in

the park, uh, during the day, and

330

you can carry your packed breakfast,

packed lunch, or you can come out

331

for lunch and again go back in.

332

So you have a full freedom.

333

So i- i- it's a wonderful way to see the

park and, um, and you can wait at a water

334

hole, or you can,, sit at a potential

place where there's going to be movement.

335

So, so it's worth,, one day inside

the park is really worth it.

336

. And you also exit later, so, uh,

15 minutes later than the others.

337

Wow.

338

Yeah, I, I'm really excited for this.

339

And to, to have that freedom and

to be able to just watch a tiger,

340

even if they're sleeping, alone,

uh, will be really exciting.

341

So Vishal, I want to thank you for being

on the show today and letting us know

342

how this all started and, and about the

conservation of the tigers, because it's

343

fantastic, and it's allowed me to come see

the tigers and now bring others to do it.

344

So thank you.

345

Is there, um, anything

else you'd like to say?

346

And, and actually maybe if you want to

give some website addresses or anything

347

so we know how to get more information.

348

Well, people can get in

touch with us on our website.

349

It's called royalexpeditions.com.

350

And we also have another website

which is very easy to remember.

351

It's called indiatigersafari.com.

352

Oh, okay.

353

That's awesome.

354

So you're wi- yeah, yeah.

355

All right.

356

That's particularly for wildlife only.

357

That's fabulous.

358

And we looking forward, Karen, to

you to bring a group, and I'm sure

359

they will, uh, see lots of tigers,

and you're coming in the right month,

360

and you have chosen the right parks.

361

So especially Tadoba is, uh, like

a role model for conservation in

362

India, uh, because it's got the

maximum participation of local people.

363

Yeah.

364

So, um, it, it would

be an interesting trip.

365

Yeah, I'm, I'm really excited about that.

366

And, on a future trip I'm also going

to do a snow leopard trip, so that's,

367

that'll be a separate thing, though.

368

Mm-hmm.

369

So all right.

370

Well, thank you everyone for,

uh, listening and watching, and

371

we will connect with you later.

372

Bye bye.

373

Okay.

374

Have a nice day.